Everyone Agrees: Most People Are Wrong

[Loffler]

Something non-believers hear a lot from believers: "You just think most people are wrong? You think all those people who believe in the divine are crazy? What makes you smarter than the majority of the world?"

This is a funny sentiment, because the truth is all people believe most people are wrong.

If you're a Christian, you believe non-Christians are wrong. Well, 66% of the world is non-Christian, so a majority of people, in the eyes of a Christian, are wrong.

If you're Muslim, you believe non-Muslims are wrong. 85% of the world is non-Muslim, so a majority of people, in the eyes of a Muslim, are wrong.

If you're a non-believer, you believe believers are wrong. 90% of the world are believers, so a majority of people, in the eyes of a non-believer, are wrong.

Even the Buddhists, who famously refer to different faiths as "different paths to the same thing," believe people are wrong about the true natures of their own religions. I've never met a Buddhist who believes, simultaneously, that both Islam and Christianity are completely true. How could they? They frequently contradict each other, often significantly: one says Jesus is the son of God, the other says he is not.

There is no "majority religion" on Earth. There is no faith which more than 50% of the world believes in. So no matter what you believe, you are in the minority. Thus, we can all agree most people are wrong; we just disagree on which people are wrong specifically.

This has profound implications once you really think about it. No matter what your faith, you believe that the most common trait of the average human's religious beliefs is "wrongness." You believe that people are overall prone to having the wrong idea about the supernatural. Viewed as a tendency of humanity, one might say that people are in the habit, more often than not, of mischaracterizing the divine. If you're really brave, you'll take this to its next conclusion: that the human brain is predisposed toward inventing religious stories, and we merely disagree on when, if ever, they got one right.

But back to the safer point. Atheism has no unique hubris amongst the beliefs of the world. We think most people are wrong -- but then, so does everybody.

[Will]

Nice. This is a very powerful argument that I didn't think of. Seriously, very nice.

[McQ]

That is a good point. Did you read that somewhere, Loffler, or come up with it yourself? I'd like to post it on my desk or something, but want to give proper credit. It sounds very Sagan-like. Thanks for posting it.

[Loffler]

It's all me. Post away.

[Loffler]

I brought this up at another forum and I think, after circling the kill a few times, I have a pretty rockin checkmate.


(I'm Dr. State.)

[susangail]

Wow, this is awesome. I love looking at the world through eyes like this. I hate thinking of other beliefs as "wrong". I try to be as much of a pluralist as I can, but underneath it all, I guess I do feel they are wrong. Wow, deep. Love it.

[Loffler]

Wow, this is awesome. I love looking at the world through eyes like this. I hate thinking of other beliefs as "wrong". I try to be as much of a pluralist as I can, but underneath it all, I guess I do feel they are wrong. Wow, deep. Love it.

Well, whether we think of others as wrong is less the issue than the fact that we atheists are not alone in our assessment that others are wrong. They accuse us of thinking we're smarter than most people, when in fact there is no position to take if I want to agree with "most people." All positions are minority positions.

[susangail]

Wow, this is awesome. I love looking at the world through eyes like this. I hate thinking of other beliefs as "wrong". I try to be as much of a pluralist as I can, but underneath it all, I guess I do feel they are wrong. Wow, deep. Love it.

Well, whether we think of others as wrong is less the issue than the fact that we atheists are not alone in our assessment that others are wrong. They accuse us of thinking we're smarter than most people, when in fact there is no position to take if I want to agree with "most people." All positions are minority positions.

That is one to munch on. There is a "most people" in specific areas (like my town) but on the broad scale, there isn't. I'm seriously going to be thinking about this for a bit. Thank you!

[Loffler]

Wow, this is awesome. I love looking at the world through eyes like this. I hate thinking of other beliefs as "wrong". I try to be as much of a pluralist as I can, but underneath it all, I guess I do feel they are wrong. Wow, deep. Love it.

Well, whether we think of others as wrong is less the issue than the fact that we atheists are not alone in our assessment that others are wrong. They accuse us of thinking we're smarter than most people, when in fact there is no position to take if I want to agree with "most people." All positions are minority positions.

That is one to munch on. There is a "most people" in specific areas (like my town) but on the broad scale, there isn't. I'm seriously going to be thinking about this for a bit. Thank you!

People in your position can benefit especially from this reasoning, since it forces your accuser to consider the big picture. Beliefs in one place or another might be majority, but in the world, they are not.

[cookie]

I love this! Yesterday someone came up to me and asked me if I thought I was smarter than the majority of the world that believes in god. "Yes, but that is irrelevant. You think you know better than the majority of the world that doesn't believe in your god."

This one's going right up there with the IPU.

[Dickson]

I disagree.    

Your post, Loffler, was amazingly well put.  Kudos.  It actually reminds me of something my father-in-law (an Episcopal priest) said.  "When I get to Heaven, the first thing I'm going to do is walk up to Jesus and ask him to straighten me out on all the stuff I got wrong."  

I think any true believer (or nonbeliever) of any religion has to be somewhat agnostic.  I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything, nor do I think atheists think that about themselves.

[Jolly Sapper]

And I will have to offer a counter point to you Mr. Dickson.

*don't read my following words as if I've taken offense*

Its not so much that I'm arrogant in my deciding to stop being agnostic, its that agnosticism or faith are dead hypothesis' to me.  An interesting hypothesis, but ultimately dead in myopinion.  There are no new arguments or facts or proofs that lead me to doubt any myself anymore.

Now I would hazard a guess that I am not the only person who feels this way, so its possible that alot of those who self identify as atheist while openly rejecting agnosticism and faith do so not out of arrogance or whishful thinking but because the alternative hypothesis is just well.. dead to them.  

Though I can understand how this mindset can be understood as "close minded" but it could also be construed as "principled" depending on the beliefs of the observer.

[Loffler]

I disagree.    

Your post, Loffler, was amazingly well put.  Kudos.  It actually reminds me of something my father-in-law (an Episcopal priest) said.  "When I get to Heaven, the first thing I'm going to do is walk up to Jesus and ask him to straighten me out on all the stuff I got wrong."  

I think any true believer (or nonbeliever) of any religion has to be somewhat agnostic.  I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything, nor do I think atheists think that about themselves.

Technically speaking, both Christians and atheists are "agnostic" in that we "lack knowledge" of a divine presence. The only difference is how we choose to respond to this lack of knowledge: you choose to believe in a divinity anyway, we do not.

[freeatlast]

I have everyone beat! I'm wrong 99% of the freaking time.
I continue to rock on (in my own mind).
Dammit

[Dickson]

*don't read my following words as if I've taken offense*

I didn't.  Don't worry.  

I can see your point, and think "hypothesis" is a great word for your situation.  You've tried different theories of faith during a period of spiritual wandering and, ultimately, decided that none of them worked.  I respect that.  

btw:  it kind of freaked me out when you called me Mr. Dickson.  That's what my students call me!  It's still summer, dammit!

Technically speaking, both Christians and atheists are "agnostic" in that we "lack knowledge" of a divine presence. The only difference is how we choose to respond to this lack of knowledge: you choose to believe in a divinity anyway, we do not.

Again, Loffler whittles the infinitely complex down to something manageable.  Gad, I wish more people had his gift.  

Your point does, though, get back to that sticking point of the difference between "knowledge" and "belief."  To a person of faith, these things are closer together than to a non-believer.   I believe that my wife loves me, even though there's no scientific proof of that.